When talk therapy isn't enough, some people look for other options. Jill Sitnick, who worked at Microsoft and Amazon, tells Jeremy Van Wert how a PTSD diagnosis led her to MDMA-assisted therapy, why she says the real work happens in the integration afterward, and where she points people who want to learn about clinical trials.
ᛉKey takeaways
- Jill says talk therapy and medication alone were not helping, and that a PTSD diagnosis, trust in her therapist and clinical research led her to try MDMA therapy.
- She describes her treatment as three cycles over one year, each with preparation, a session and integration.
- Jill believes the session is only part of the work, and that most of the healing comes in the weeks and months of integration afterward.
- She recommends journaling and voice recording sessions so that nothing the subconscious says is lost.
- For a legal route, Jill points people to clinicaltrials.gov, the MAPS website, Google Alerts and LinkedIn.
- She stresses that she is not a medical doctor and says some people who contact her need to see a doctor right away.
ᛃ Moments in this one
ᚠWhen talk therapy isn't enough: how Jill got to that point
Jill Sitnick spent more than 25 years in educational technology, including time at Microsoft and Amazon. Today she advocates for psychedelic-assisted therapy, mainly MDMA therapy for PTSD, because she went through it as a patient. She says she explains it partly because she held the same stigma herself when she started.
In her late 40s, her partner of more than 20 years died unexpectedly. In her grief she treated herself to therapy, even though she had little faith in it, and found a gifted therapist. About 18 months later, a work email set off a physical reaction she did not understand. Her body, she says, behaved as if she were about to lose her job, her house and everything else.
Her therapist asked her to talk to her body, and childhood memories surfaced. Her symptoms did not improve, and Jill says she felt increasingly hopeless even though her life looked fine on the surface. Her therapist gave her a PTSD diagnosis, which Jill did not believe at first, and had her read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk.
ᚢWhy she chose MDMA therapy for PTSD
Her therapist was training to become a psychedelic-assisted psychotherapist and suggested she look at the clinical trial information from MAPS. As Jill read the data, about two thirds of participants no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis after three cycles.
Three things led to her yes: her desperation, her trust in her therapist and the research. Talk therapy and an antidepressant, her two options, were not working, so she asked what else she had to lose. The yes was not quick. Jill says she agreed in the spring, and her first session was not until September because she had to come off her medication, get her questions answered and meet a second practitioner.
Jill says her own treatment was underground, not part of a clinical trial, though her doctors followed the MAPS protocol except for the time between sessions. She notes that it is illegal outside of trials and says she would never tell anyone to go do this. Anyone considering medication changes should talk with their prescriber.
ᚦWhat an MDMA therapy session was like
Jill says MDMA is not a classic psychedelic. You do not see visuals, she explains. You stay awake and aware, and she describes it as calming the fire alarm in the brain, the amygdala. She voice recorded her sessions and remembers only about 45 minutes, which is why she recommends recording them.
For the first time, she says, her body calmed down, and she was able to tell two people that she knew her father would be trying to hurt her if he were in the room. The two practitioners did not argue. They listened as empathetic witnesses, and when she said things like “I don't deserve to be here,” they gently asked, “Is that true?” Jill says this is very different from a regular talk therapy session because it is patient guided.
ᚨWhy integration matters more than the session
The most repeated idea in the episode is that the session is not where the work gets done. Jill compares it to surgery: you prepare, you have the procedure, and then comes the healing, with rest, rehab and care. She says people are too rarely given aftercare protocols, so they do not realize the work has only begun when they get home.
Jeremy agrees and notes that weekend retreats can be so compact that a person flies in, flies out and wonders whether any of it happened. Without preparation, intentions and integration, he says, the lessons may not stick. His own retreat, Light in the Mountains, is a three-day small-group psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy retreat in the Sierra Nevada.
Integration, Jill says, can take months. After her first session she felt like a failure because she did not feel better, but while sitting in the car three childhood memories floated up and she saw them with adult eyes. She went from “I was an inconvenience” to “I was just a kid.” She believes repeating that kind of reframe changes the neural connections around those memories. If you want support putting insights like these into daily life, Jeremy offers individual therapy and coaching, including psychedelic integration.
ᚱThe dish soap analogy and the workbook
Jill and her therapist used a cleaning analogy. The dried-on food is the trauma, the pots and pans are the memories and the dish soap is the psychedelic. Integration is the scrubbing, and one spray is rarely enough. She says it took repeated sessions and time because she was embedded in neglect for 19 years.
She turned that approach into two resources. Her memoir, written from a year of journaling, lets readers sit in a sidecar with her. Her workbook, she says, comes from the eight strategies her therapist used to help her prepare, and she designed it after seeing people disappointed because they expected an overnight fix. By the end of that summer, she says, she no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis.
ᚲFrom corporate career to advocacy, and spirituality later
After about six and a half years at Microsoft, Jill took time off to write the book she had always thought was in her. She told her colleagues why she was leaving, and several reached out with their own stories. She felt that was a sign she was on the right path.
Jill says the early MDMA work had zero spirituality in it, apart from hearing her inner voice for the first time. Later work with other medicines, she says, brought a spiritual side, including conversations with her grandmothers and ancestors. She has stopped asking whether it is real and says it matters that it helps her heal and helps others.
ᚷClinical trials and where to learn more
For people who want a legal route, Jill suggests searching clinicaltrials.gov and filtering for psychedelic studies that are recruiting, then checking the MAPS website. She also recommends Google Alerts and LinkedIn to follow universities and companies running trials.
She says she is not a medical doctor and that about half the people who contact her are in crisis and need a doctor right away. If you are weighing next steps and want to talk it through, Jeremy offers a private conversation and the Mindful Mutiny community offers real conversation, live Fireside Chats and a course library.
This episode discusses childhood trauma, grief and hopelessness. Jill says MDMA therapy is illegal outside approved clinical trials, and nothing here is a recommendation to use any substance or to change a medication. Psychedelics aren't right for everyone. If you are struggling, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional or your local emergency services.
ᚨ Questions people ask
What can you do when talk therapy isn't enough?
For Jill, a diagnosis, trust in her therapist and clinical research led her to try MDMA therapy after talk therapy and medication were not helping. She says legal options come through clinical trials, and that anyone in crisis should see a doctor right away.
What is integration after psychedelic therapy?
Jill describes it as the preparation, the session and the work afterward, and says most of the healing happens after the session. She compares it to recovering from surgery and says it can take months.
Does MDMA therapy include a spiritual experience?
Not for Jill. She says her MDMA work had zero spirituality apart from hearing her inner voice for the first time. She found a spiritual side later, with other medicines.
How did Jill find MDMA therapy research?
Her therapist pointed her to the MAPS clinical trial information. Jill also suggests clinicaltrials.gov, Google Alerts and LinkedIn for following current studies.