Selling without being pushy is possible when you treat sales as a service and your message as something the market helps you refine. That is the view of author and thought leadership coach Nicky Billou, who joins Jeremy Van Wert to explain why good people with weak sales skills struggle, how messaging gets tested, and why serving your network builds lasting business.
ᛉKey takeaways
- Nicky says many good people with high ethics have low sales and marketing skills, and that worry about seeming pushy keeps them from the business they should pursue.
- He teaches that service-oriented people should embrace selling as a good and treat messaging as a necessity.
- Nicky calls messaging a process, not a switch, and says it must be tested on real people in the market.
- He recommends starting with a conversation with your top 200 contacts, which Jeremy says brought a positive response.
- Nicky believes getting help speeds everything up, even for people who think they do not need it.
- In The Power of Connecting, he argues that serving your network is how to build profitable relationships.
ᛃ Moments in this one
ᚠSelling without being pushy: why good people struggle with sales
Nicky says that when he started serving people as a coach, he noticed two groups. There are good people with high ethics but low sales and marketing skills, and there are people with poor ethics but strong sales skills. He calls the second group charlatan marketers, and he says they prey on the first group.
The good people, he explains, often avoid the business they should be going after because they worry about being seen as pushy, slimy salespeople. That bothered him, because he believed he had both strong sales skills and strong ethics. His aim became finding good people with poor sales and marketing skills, persuading them to value those skills and teaching them.
Nicky says that was Jeremy when they first spoke, confident in everything except selling. Jeremy says he has been working with Nicky for a couple of months, so this is partly a conversation between a coach and a client.
ᚢWhere Nicky's view of business comes from: Iran and his father
Nicky grew up in Iran, where he describes himself as a Christian. He was 11 when the 1978 revolution changed life for his family. His parents decided to get their boys out and raise them in the West, and Nicky says he came to see that as a gift of freedom.
His father taught him that business is about people, not money, and that the purpose of a business is to solve problems for people at a profit. Nicky describes a man who connected job seekers with employers, advised new entrepreneurs and lent money without letting people repay it. He says that example is why he sees the best in people and wants to help good people win.
ᚦMessaging is a process, not a switch
For service-oriented people who sell higher-priced programs, Nicky says two things matter. They must embrace selling as a good, and they must have a tight, clear message. If people do not understand what you do and how you can help, the sales job is hard. If they do, you can stay in the tension of the conversation with them.
He says messaging takes market validation: testing it on real people and being willing to have it land flat. Nicky tells of a former pharmacist who got no sales for 14 months. After many attempts she found a message for burned-out pharmacists, presented to about a dozen of them, and about eight signed up.
His point is that the reps count. He says the market, not the coach, judges a message, and he tells clients not to argue with it.
ᚨStart with your top 200 contacts
Nicky's first piece of advice to Jeremy was to contact the 200 most important people in his network and have a conversation about what he does. Jeremy says the response has been positive. Friends had seen his branding and podcast but did not know he was helping people, and the conversations got them thinking about who they might send his way.
It is the old idea of making your network your net worth. If you want to talk through how coaching or therapy might fit, Jeremy offers a private 30-minute conversation.
ᚱWhat entrepreneurs fear most, and why getting help speeds you up
Asked what people fear most, Nicky answers that they will fail and that something is wrong with them. They do not believe they deserve success, and they are unwilling to examine that belief. Jeremy, who spent his career in corporate America, says the biggest scary question is whether he will make it.
Nicky tells a personal story. After years of coaching others, he gained weight, hired a coach and kept adjusting his approach over months until progress came. He says most of the change came late because he had done the reps.
He admits that as a former fitness trainer he thought he did not need help. When he accepted it, he says, everything took off. Jeremy offers the same one-on-one support through individual therapy and coaching.
ᚲThought leadership, finish line thinking and connecting
Nicky describes thought leadership as moving the thinking forward in your field and being known for it. He says Jeremy has the chops to become one and needs the sales skills to commercialize his ideas. In The Thought Leaders Journey, a fable about a sales executive who hates his job, Nicky says he shows how to become a sought-after thought leader.
Finish Line Thinking, which he calls his most popular book, draws on his work with champions and on research by Anders Ericsson and Angela Duckworth. It lays out 13 principles for how to think and win like a champion.
The Power of Connecting argues that people crave real connection and that serving your network is how to build business relationships. Nicky says the book is about using your desire to connect to grow, and selling in a way that makes you feel honorable. For a place to practice that kind of connection, the Mindful Mutiny community offers real conversation and live Fireside Chats.
ᚷWho Nicky helps and what Jeremy takes from it
Nicky looks for service-oriented people, especially those selling high-ticket offers, who are good humans with big hearts. He wants people who admit their sales skills are weak and who want to be a difference maker in their field. Jeremy brings his own background as a former CEO to this conversation.
Nicky recalls that Jeremy came to him with some trepidation about moving into entrepreneurship, and that selling was where he felt least confident. If you are asking a similar question about your own next step, Jeremy offers a straight read on whether therapy and coaching work suits you.
ᚨ Questions people ask
How can you sell without being pushy?
Nicky says to embrace selling as a good and necessary part of serving people, and to have a clear message about what you do. He also says to look for people who need your help and to stay in the conversation with them rather than only chasing quick yeses.
Why do good people have poor sales skills?
Nicky believes they worry about being seen as pushy and slimy, so they avoid business they should be pursuing. He says his work is to teach them sales and marketing skills that match their ethics.
How long does it take to dial in a message?
Nicky says there is no switch. He describes it as a process of testing with real people in the market, and shares a client whose message took 14 months and many attempts to land.
What is thought leadership?
As Nicky describes it, a thought leader moves the thinking forward in their field and is known for it, so the right clients have heard of them. He says it also means turning your ideas into something clients can use.
Do you need a coach to grow a service business?
Nicky says getting help speeds everything up and points to his own weight-loss experience. Jeremy says weekly sessions give him the sense of moving the ball forward, though both describe their own experience.