Spiritual scams often follow a recognizable pattern: an unsolicited message, a fear-based warning and a demand for money up front. That is the view of Will Rodriguez and Karen Endsley, hosts of The Skeptic Metaphysicians, after a couple hundred interviews. In this conversation, they and Jeremy Van Wert explain how discernment can help someone stay curious without getting taken.
ᛉKey takeaways
- Will treats an unsolicited message about a curse or an urgent spiritual warning, followed by a request for money, as a sign to walk away.
- Will calls a demand for a deposit before any help is offered “the dead giveaway.”
- Will and Karen trust messages that come from love and good will, and they urge caution with any message designed to provoke fear.
- Jeremy raises a warning flag when someone says “I can heal you,” because he believes that work belongs to the person.
- Will separates being a pragmatist from being a cynic, exploring with an open mind but not a naive one.
ᛃ Moments in this one
ᚠHow to spot spiritual scams: the warning signs Will looks for
Spiritual scams keep many curious people away from this world altogether. Jeremy says the space has long included hucksters who add a spiritual lens so they can sell programs, and that this has damaged it for people with honest questions.
Will grew up in New England and says he did not want to be the guy who got taken. His first warning sign is the unsolicited approach: a DM claiming a curse on your house that a payment will remove, or a stranger called to deliver an urgent message. In his view, nobody genuine reaches out that way.
His second sign is money first. Will says that nine times out of 10 the swindler wants something from you, while the guests he respects start by asking how they can help. Sessions may come up later in the conversation, but a demand for a deposit up front is what he calls “the dead giveaway.” That is his practical test for spiritual healer scams.
The third sign is fear. Will's advice on how to spot spiritual deception is to notice whether a message is meant to provoke a fear response. He says someone who truly wants to help does not need you to act immediately, so you can notice how it feels and then decide.
ᚢWhat spiritual discernment means
Jeremy offers a word he finds more useful than skepticism: discernment. For him, spiritual discernment means paying attention to who you are working with and to any way that person may be trying to manipulate you. He points out that most people are never taught how to evaluate this world.
His own warning flag is the phrase “I can heal you.” Jeremy believes a person may show you different approaches or help you experience different energies, but that the healing is yours to do. He comes to this as a licensed therapist, coach and former company executive, and readers can learn more about his background and how he works on his site.
ᚦWhat the Skeptic Metaphysicians podcast is about
Will calls the show a passion project that grew out of trying to make sense of life during COVID. He describes himself as a pragmatist rather than a cynic, someone who explores “with an open mind but not a naive mind.” Karen says she has always felt accompanied and finds it more enjoyable to stay open, with a filter.
Will does all the research, while Karen comes in cold as the voice of the audience. Will says he no longer considers himself a skeptic, but they kept the name because the skeptics are now the listeners.
Karen's favorite result is the message they keep receiving: “Thank you for helping me feel normal.” She says people with unusual experiences are relieved to hear that accountants and tech workers are having them too.
ᚨA crisis in lockdown, then therapy and meditation
As lockdown began, Will says he looked in the mirror and did not like what he saw. He describes himself at the time as judgmental, self-entitled, angry and selfish with his time, and he says he was close to losing his family and his career.
He went to therapy and considers himself lucky to have found a good fit during a shortage of therapists. That therapist introduced him to meditation and mindfulness, which he credits with helping him walk back from the crisis. For anyone at a similar crossroads, Jeremy offers individual therapy and coaching.
Karen does not sugarcoat the family side. She describes watching Will work about 80 hours a week and push away everything good in his life. Once he began meditating, she says, the change came slowly, like a dimmer switch. Will says facing what he put everyone through will probably be lifelong.
ᚱHow to find spirituality when one path doesn't fit
Meditation led Will to bigger questions: who am I, and why am I here? He pulled out a copy of Conversations with God that he had carried since his 20s but avoided because it had the word God in it. Each morning he meditated, read a passage and recorded his thoughts on his phone.
He then reached out to Reiki practitioners, metaphysical bookstore owners, psychics and mediums he had known years earlier, and recorded those conversations. Will says he was deeply afraid of death and needed there to be something more. Karen joined as a guest co-host, and he soon asked her to stay.
Will once believed there was only one path and everyone else was wrong. Now he says there are “many paths to that one truth,” and that his path and Karen's are not the same. People who want that kind of open exchange with others can find it in Thriving Spirits, the Mindful Mutiny community, which offers real conversation, live Fireside Chats and a course library.
ᚲWhy they nearly quit and what New Reality TV stands for
After about a year, running the show alone was taking Will's time from the family, so they decided to end it. Before they did, Karen searched for the show online and found page after page of reviews they had never seen, including one from a UPS driver in Wisconsin. They kept going.
That led to New Reality TV, their on-demand and 24-hour platform. An earlier version with other partners turned corporate, so they resigned and started again. Will lists the rules for its shows: no fear-based content, no politics, nothing divisive and no deriding other modalities. Both believe good intentions matter more than money.
ᚷWill's health scare and the support he received
She and Will say he was diagnosed with cancer about two and a half years earlier, a second doctor confirmed it, and his doctor advised watching it for a year before deciding on treatment. During that time, several podcast guests offered energy work, intuitive sessions and visualizations without being asked or paid, and Will also tried an Ayurvedic diet for a while.
A year later an MRI appeared to show more spots, so his doctors ordered a targeted biopsy. Karen says she expected bad news, and that all 18 samples came back benign.
This is what Will and Karen report living through. The episode does not establish why the results came back as they did, and this post does not suggest that energy healing treats cancer.
ᚹChoosing a life that matches your values
Jeremy knows the executive life from the inside. He says too many people grin and bear a job while waiting for retirement to enjoy their lives. Will and Karen still want New Reality TV to become their full-time work, but they say the purpose already shows in how they feel about their meetings.
If this conversation has you questioning your own direction, Jeremy offers a straight read on whether therapy and retreat work suits you. You get to decide what comes next.
Energy healing is discussed as the guests' personal experience and isn't a substitute for medical care. This episode also touches on a personal crisis. If you are struggling, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional or your local emergency services.
ᚨ Questions people ask
What are the warning signs of spiritual scams?
Will points to unsolicited messages, claims about curses or urgent warnings, pressure to act right away and requests for money before any help is offered. He says a message designed to provoke fear deserves particular caution.
What is spiritual discernment?
In this episode, Jeremy describes discernment as being careful about who you work with and watching for any way a person may be trying to manipulate you. He sees it as a skill most people were never taught in this area.
Is every spiritual healer who charges money a scam?
Will does not say so. He says the people he trusts lead with how they can help, and paid sessions may come up later in the conversation. What he warns against is someone who demands payment or a deposit first.
How can you find spirituality without one fixed belief system?
Will's view is that there are many paths to one truth, and that a path that does not resonate for you may still be legitimate for someone else. He says the important thing is to get on a path.