Generational trauma, in the view of Dr. Anna Luna, is something psychology as she was trained in it does not fully reach. A counselor with a doctorate in counseling psychology and about 15 years in traditional indigenous healing arts, she tells Jeremy Van Wert how ceremony, rites of passage and safe community shaped her work, and why she calls disconnection our biggest wound.
ᛉKey takeaways
- Dr. Luna says psychology, as she learned it through her doctorate, was not enough to heal ancestral, historical or generational trauma.
- She describes decolonizing herself as peeling away Western ways of thinking and claiming her mixed indigenous heritage, which took many years and many ceremonies.
- In her view a rite of passage is a pause to reflect and shed what no longer serves you, done for your community and not only for yourself.
- She uses the medicine wheel of mind, body, spirit and emotions to look at the whole person, and she now values the parts of psychology that help.
- She names disconnection from nature, from the divine and from ourselves as the biggest wound she sees, and says medicine can be love, music, dance and laughter.
ᛃ Moments in this one
ᚠWhy psychology wasn't enough for generational trauma
Dr. Luna came to her healing work through academia. She says psychology, as she learned it up to her doctorate, “wasn't enough” to heal ancestral trauma, historical trauma or generational trauma. In her view the field touches these only a little, for example through post-traumatic stress.
What pushed her to deepen her training was a simple question: how do people really heal? Mental health workers assume they know, she says, but she wanted to learn more. She calls the effort to bring Western and indigenous approaches together something she is still working out, and says she does not have the whole answer yet.
Jeremy describes the same tension as a licensed therapist. He says the Western model leans on the idea that a pill helps people live their lives, while healing may also come from community, dropping old ideas and connecting with spirit, which is hard to fit in a textbook or an insurance code.
ᚢFrom a doctorate in counseling psychology to ancestral healing
Dr. Luna moved to New Mexico for her doctorate. A peer invited her to a sweat lodge ceremony, then to a women's changing ceremony in the White Mountain Apache tradition. In the middle of a program she calls all theory and research, she found herself peeling away layers of who she was.
She describes what followed as decolonizing herself from Western ways of thinking and claiming her indigenous heritage. That meant recognizing the history of oppression, and releasing the self-hatred that came with it. In her words, every ceremony helped her remember who she is.
She also draws on Borderlands, a book by a Chicana author, for the idea of living in between. As a Mexican American, she says, she is not fully Mexican in Mexico or fully American in the United States, yet she is native to the Americas. Jeremy relates this to his own search for the pre-Christian roots of his Nordic ancestors.
ᚦRites of passage and the vision quest
Dr. Luna says American society has few moments to pause and honor a change in life. In many indigenous traditions, she explains, rites of passage mark the shift from child to adult and bring advice from elders on how to live.
Her own rite was the Lakota vision quest, which she describes as “crying for a vision.” She says it is a lifelong commitment made in four-year periods, one of seven sacred ceremonies, and that it ends with a sacred pipe and a responsibility to pray for the people.
To her the heart of it is a pause for reflection, shedding what does not serve you and offering something of yourself. The hardest thing to let go of was pain. She says reframing suffering as an offering gave her a new baseline for what she can handle, and made her more able to sit with someone else who is suffering.
ᚨMeeting the critical voice in plant medicine ceremony
Dr. Luna has spent about 15 years in plant medicine ceremony and says she holds deep reverence for these medicines. Even so, she entered an initiation in the Peruvian tradition feeling a limiting belief. In her earlier training, she explains, this path is given to you, not something you ask for, and she doubted whether she should step into it.
She says that doubt rose up in ceremony as a voice telling her she could not do this. She talked it through with a psychologist on the Pachamama Sacred Paths team and recognized it as a critical father voice. It did not vanish, but she could see it and tell it that she was in charge.
That experience changed how she views psychology. She now values the parts that help, and she uses the medicine wheel of mind, body, spirit and emotions to ask which direction needs attention. She also says she is not licensed, and that she rejected much of what she learned for years before reclaiming it. For people ready for deeper work, Jeremy leads Light in the Mountains, a three-day small-group psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy retreat in the Sierra Nevada.
ᚱDisconnection: the biggest wound and what counts as medicine
Asked about the biggest wound she sees, Dr. Luna answers without hesitation: disconnection. She means being cut off from nature, from the divine and from our own selves. She believes people forget they are divine beings, and that seeing this again brings a great deal of healing.
Jeremy adds what he sees around him: homes with garages in front, neighbors who do not know each other's names and a loneliness epidemic. After a recent weekend with a small group, he says, people spoke about things they had never told anyone, and a moment of touching hands in a circle felt deeply healing.
That moment led Dr. Luna to widen the word. Medicine, she says, does not have to be something you swallow. It can be love, music, dance and laughter, or someone with no title saying they see you. Readers who want that kind of connection can find real conversation and live Fireside Chats in Thriving Spirits, the Mindful Mutiny community.
ᚲWhat makes a community space safe, and why integration matters
Dr. Luna says safe community starts with protocols and with fostering safety as well as you can, which she knows is hard for anyone who has lived with trauma. She also invites ancestors, guides and the higher wisdom of each person into the circle, and values practices such as touching hands, eye contact and hugging that give people human contact.
She says the protocol at Pachamama Sacred Paths is unlike anything in her traditional training, with each part of the process having its own purpose. Jeremy says a weekend can leave you feeling like a different person looking at your life from outside, which is why integration matters.
He plans to attend integration circles to fold the new pieces of himself into daily life. For support after a big experience, he offers individual therapy, including psychedelic integration.
Psychedelics and plant medicines may be illegal where you live and aren't right for everyone. Nothing here is a recommendation to use any substance. Dr. Luna's views on ancestral trauma and ceremony are her own beliefs and experience, not medical advice. This episode also touches on trauma. If you are struggling, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional or your local emergency services.
ᚨ Questions people ask
What is generational trauma according to Dr. Anna Luna?
She does not give a clinical definition in this episode. She uses ancestral, historical and generational trauma as related ideas and says psychology as she was taught it did not reach them. She also describes seeing her ancestors in ceremony and says this helps bring them peace, which is a spiritual belief.
What is a rite of passage?
Dr. Luna describes it as a pause to honor a change in life, shed what no longer serves you and receive guidance from elders. She says it is done with and for the community. Her own example is the Lakota vision quest.
Can psychology and indigenous healing work together?
Dr. Luna says she is still integrating them. She found that psychological tools helped her recognize a critical inner voice during a retreat, and she says psychology misses the spiritual side of what people carry.
What makes a healing space feel safe?
In her view, protocols and a sincere effort to foster safety come first, along with calling on guides and ancestors. She also values human contact such as touch, eye contact and hugging, and she says integration afterward matters.